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Hunter Talents Introduction Beast Mastery Talents Marksmanship Talents Survivalist Talents Hunter Talent Builds
With all of the hunter talent changes in version 1.7 there has been a lot of talk about the merits of the different builds. I became interested enough in tradeoffs to try to do some number crunching and figure out what the real tradeoffs were in terms of DPS. Using the equation given in the now defunc post from the european forums as a starting point:http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx FN=wow-hunter&T=587934&P=1
And extrapolating an equation for the pet, I wrote a program to exhaustively search the talent builds and determine the best possible DPS with a variety of constraints. Here is the snipet of that code that calculates the DPS numbers. Please give feedback if you find anything that seems fishy. I have had to take a few guesses:
const double fBaseAGI = 271;
const double fBaseAttackSpeed = 1.13;
const double fBaseWeaponDPS = 32.3; // Bloodseeker
const double fBaseWeaponSpeed = 3.3; // Bloodseeker
const double fBaseAmmoDPS = 13.0;
const double fBaseHitPercent = 0.95;
const double fCritGearBonus = 0.06; // Barbarous Blade, Backwood Helm, Leggings of Destruction
const double fBaseScopeBonus = 7.0;
const double fAttackPowerGearBonus = 84.0; // Barbarous Blade, Bracers of the Eclipse
const double fBasePetDPS = (89+112)/2.0/2.0; // Bear
const double fBasePetAttackSpeed = 1.0;
const double fBasePetCritChance = 0.06; // Bear has a measured 6% crit rate
const double fBasePetHitChance = 0.95; // Guess
double fWeaponDPS = fBaseWeaponDPS*(1.0+0.01*iRangedWeaponsSpecialization);
double fAgility = fBaseAGI*(1.0+iLightningReflexes*0.03);
double fTrueShotAttackBonus = 100*iTrueShotAura;
double fAttackPower = 2.0*fAgility + 110*(1+0.03*iImprovedHuntersMark) + fAttackPowerGearBonus + fTrueShotAttackBonus;
double fAttackSpeedWarp = fBaseAttackSpeed + 0.30*iImprovedAspectOfTheHawk/5.0*0.05*(60.0/fBaseWeaponSpeed)*8.0/60.0;
double fAmmoDPS = fBaseAmmoDPS;
double fHitPercent = fBaseHitPercent + 0.01*iSureFooted;
double fScopeBonus = fBaseScopeBonus;
double fCritChance = fAgility/53.0/100 + fCritGearBonus + iLethalShots*0.01 + 0.01*iKillerInstinct;
double fCritMultiplier = 2.0 + 0.06*iMortalShots;
fHunterDPS = (fWeaponDPS + fAttackPower/14.0 + fAmmoDPS + fScopeBonus*fAttackSpeedWarp/fBaseWeaponSpeed)*fAttackSpeedWarp*
((fHitPercent-fCritChance) + (fCritChance*fCritMultiplier))*(1.0 + (iMonsterSlaying+iHumanoidSlaying)/2.0*0.01);
double fPetCritChance = fBasePetCritChance + 0.03*iFerocity;
double fPetAttackSpeedWarp = fBasePetAttackSpeed + 0.30*iFrenzy/5.0*(60.0/2.0)*fPetCritChance*8.0/60.0;
double fPetHitChance = fBasePetHitChance;
fPetDPS = (fBasePetDPS + fTrueShotAttackBonus/14.0)*(1.0+0.03*iUnleashFury)*fPetAttackSpeedWarp*
((fPetHitChance-fPetCritChance) + fPetCritChance*2.0)*(1.0 + iBeastialWrath*0.125);
In choosing point allocations, the search follows the following path through the trees to maximize DPS. There are gaps between the "DPSproducing" talents, and those points can be spent however you see fit:
In Beast Mastery:
Improved Aspect of the Hawk
Unleash Fury
Ferocity
Frenzy
Bestial Wrath
In Marksman:
Lethal Shots
Mortal Shots
Ranged Weapons Specialization
Trueshot Aura
In Survival:
Monster Slaying
Human Slaying
Surefooted
Killer Instinct
Lightning Reflexes
I have ommitted Improved Hunter's Mark, since it's contribution is small, and the effect of Lethal Shots is much greater at that level of the tree. I also ignored Bestial Wrath from DPS since it takes mana and can't be sustained. Same argument for Arcane Shot and Multishot. Here are the builds that resulted. Each one imposes different constraints based on talents that you might consider to be must haves. I've also run this twice, once with 271 AGI from racial stats plus gear, the other with 350 AGI:
with fBaseAGI = 271 and no pet Talents Hunter Pet Total
Best Overall DPS 1/20/30 153.9 0 153.9
Best DPS with Beastial Wrath 31/20/0 135.7 0 135.7
Best DPS with 14 Marks (Hawkeye and Aimed Shot) 5/14/30 150.3 0 150.3
Best DPS with Wyvern Shot 0/20/31 152.9 0 152.9
Best DPS with Trap Efficiency 1/20/30 153.9 0 153.9
Best DPS with Trap Mastery and Improved Feign Death 1/20/30 153.9 0 153.9
Best DPS with Intimidation 21/0/30 144 0 144
Best DPS with Scattershot 2/31/18 152.9 0 152.9
Best DPS with Intimidation and Scattershot 21/21/6 139.8 0 139.8
Best DPS with Intimidation and Deterrance 21/0/30 144 0 144
Best DPS with Scattershot and Deterrance 2/31/18 152.9 0 152.9
0/21/30 0/21/30 152.9 0 152.9
20/31/0 20/31/0 147.5 0 147.5
21/0/30 21/0/30 144 0 144
31/0/19 31/0/19 131.5 0 131.5
1/31/19 1/31/19 151.9 0 151.9
6/14/31 6/14/31 150.3 0 150.3
31/14/0 31/14/0 130 0 130
with fBaseAGI = 350 and no pet: Talents Hunter Pet Total
Best Overall DPS 1/20/30 175.8 0 175.8
Best DPS with Beastial Wrath 31/20/0 153.5 0 153.5
Best DPS with 14 Marks (Hawkeye and Aimed Shot) 5/14/30 171.2 0 171.2
Best DPS with Wyvern Shot 0/20/31 174.7 0 174.7
Best DPS with Trap Efficiency 1/20/30 175.8 0 175.8
Best DPS with Trap Mastery and Improved Feign Death 1/20/30 175.8 0 175.8
Best DPS with Intimidation 21/0/30 164 0 164
Best DPS with Scattershot 0/21/30 174.7 0 174.7
Best DPS with Intimidation and Scattershot 21/21/6 158.1 0 158.1
Best DPS with Intimidation and Deterrance 21/0/30 164 0 164
Best DPS with Scattershot and Deterrance 2/31/18 171.5 0 171.5
0/21/30 0/21/30 174.7 0 174.7
20/31/0 20/31/0 165.5 0 165.5
21/0/30 21/0/30 164 0 164
31/0/19 31/0/19 148.3 0 148.3
1/31/19 1/31/19 170.4 0 170.4
6/14/31 6/14/31 171.2 0 171.2
31/14/0 31/14/0 146.6 0 146.6
with fBaseAGI = 271 with pet: Talents Hunter Pet Total
Best Overall DPS 31/20/0 135.7 94.4 230.1
Best DPS with Beastial Wrath 31/20/0 135.7 94.4 230.1
Best DPS with 14 Marks (Hawkeye and Aimed Shot) 31/14/6 133.9 94.4 228.4
Best DPS with Wyvern Shot 20/0/31 144 67 211
Best DPS with Trap Efficiency 31/0/18 131.5 94.4 226
Best DPS with Trap Mastery and Improved Feign Death 31/0/19 131.5 94.4 226
Best DPS with Intimidation 31/20/0 135.7 94.4 230.1
Best DPS with Scattershot 20/31/0 147.5 76.6 224.1
Best DPS with Intimidation and Scattershot 30/21/0 135.7 83.9 219.6
Best DPS with Intimidation and Deterrance 31/9/11 132.7 94.4 227.2
Best DPS with Scattershot and Deterrance 2/31/18 152.9 58 210.9
0/21/30 0/21/30 152.9 50.8 203.7
20/31/0 20/31/0 147.5 76.6 224.1
21/0/30 21/0/30 144 67 211
31/0/19 31/0/19 131.5 94.4 226
1/31/19 1/31/19 151.9 58 209.9
6/14/31 6/14/31 150.3 50.8 201.1
31/14/0 31/14/0 130 94.4 224.5
with fBaseAGI = 350 with pet: Talents Hunter Pet Total
Best Overall DPS 31/20/0 153.5 94.4 247.9
Best DPS with Beastial Wrath 31/20/0 153.5 94.4 247.9
Best DPS with 14 Marks (Hawkeye and Aimed Shot) 31/14/6 151 94.4 245.4
Best DPS with Wyvern Shot 20/0/31 164 67 231
Best DPS with Trap Efficiency 31/0/18 148.3 94.4 242.7
Best DPS with Trap Mastery and Improved Feign Death 31/0/19 148.3 94.4 242.7
Best DPS with Intimidation 31/20/0 153.5 94.4 247.9
Best DPS with Scattershot 20/31/0 165.5 76.6 242.1
Best DPS with Intimidation and Scattershot 30/21/0 153.5 83.9 237.4
Best DPS with Intimidation and Deterrance 31/9/11 149.7 94.4 244.1
Best DPS with Scattershot and Deterrance 2/31/18 171.5 58 229.5
0/21/30 0/21/30 174.7 50.8 225.4
20/31/0 20/31/0 165.5 76.6 242.1
21/0/30 21/0/30 164 67 231
31/0/19 31/0/19 148.3 94.4 242.7
1/31/19 1/31/19 170.4 58 228.4
6/14/31 6/14/31 171.2 50.8 221.9
31/14/0 31/14/0 146.6 94.4 241
Not all of them add up to 51 points spent, and in the cases where they don't, you are free to spend the remaining points however you wish to get different talents. The way you spend those extra points should end up being negligible for your total DPS. Also, in calculating the numbers for Survival, the first three points on the fourth level are assumed to go into Surefooted rather than Trap Mastery or Improved Feign Death. Keep this in mind as you look at the numbers since if you took those two skills before Surefooted, you would loose 1% to 3% DPS overall.
If my numbers are right, it appears that Blizzard REALLY wants us to use our pets now. I know the arguments about Molten Core and so on, but perhaps the new resistances will even make that possible. Also, with the new pet abilities, I think that the damage numbers for the pet will go even higher. With this new emphasis on pets by Blizzard, I would hazzard a guess that new content will not be so harsh on pets. I would further speculate that if pets cannot survive MC with the new resists, something will be changed so that they can.
When I started this, I really wanted to justify taking the new trap and feign death skills 'cause they sound useful and fun. However, the way I see it now, a pet that can really tank and hold aggro is worth more too me than a trap that lasts an extra 7 seconds. Others will say that the extra petless DPS for high AGI toons offered by Lightning Reflexes in Survival makes up for that, so be it. Then there is Trueshot Aura at the bottom of the Marksman tree. It continues to only affect your group, not the whole raid. That being the case, you can see the results it has on you and your pet here and so a straight forward comparison can be made versus other builds. As far as how it helps others, depending on your group makeup, it's going to give a couple other people about 100/14 = 7.1 DPS more each for maybe a total of 14.2 DPS that isn't shown here. Doesn't seem like that much too me in the big picture.
I have graphed the four main build trends with pet damage included: Beast/Marks 37/14/0, Marks/Beast 20/31/0, Surv/Beast 20/0/31 and Best 31/20/0 versus AGI from 25 to 500. The Beast/Marks and Marks/Beast lines are very close all the way out to 500 AGI. Prior to 244 AGI the Beast/Marks build is a bit better, after 244 AGI the Marks/Beast build is a bit better. The difference over the range of 200-400 AGI is negligible, and is only marginal outside of that range. The Surv/Beast build starts about 12 DPS below these two at 300 AGI, and by 500 AGI has closed the gap too 3DPS, though it is still beneath them. The Best build is essentially parallel to the Marks/Beast build, ahead of it by 5 to 7 DPS all the way out.
In any event, you can draw your own conclusions. Happy Hunting!
Caveman
Guardians Of Honor
Garona